︎
This episode begins with a story from stylist and creative director Bryn Taylor, who shares how she’s learned to regain focus on the present moment. Here’s more from Bryn.
Bryn Taylor: My name is Bryn, and I’m the founder and creative director of Ouisa, a French-inspired, slow fashion brand for the aspiring minimalist. One thing that’s made me slow down, unplug, and stop scrolling recently is my acting class. I took up a beginner class whose foundational technique is observation-based—meaning we have to observe and absorb the environment around us, both on and off stage.
The experience has helped me become more present in my day-to-day activities. The exercises we’re learning are from a book called An Actor’s Companion by Seth Barrish, and I like to practice them in the evening to unplug after work. As an example, one of the exercises is called “Real-Life Models,” and it reads:
“If in a particular scene, you are chatting over breakfast, observe your real-life breakfast. See what it feels like, take what you learn from the experience, and adjust your behavior on stage accordingly. There is no better guide than real experience.”
So, through this exercise, I’ve been able to observe things like how I’m sitting, what I’m hearing outside my window, how I’m interacting with whatever’s in front of me, things that will usually go completely unnoticed by me. This focus brings me into the moment and allows me to just be present.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Thank you so much again to Bryn for sharing. Again, the book she mentioned was An Actor’s Companion by Seth Barrish, and you can learn more about Bryn’s brand Ouisa online at https://ouisa.clothing/. Now, here’s my conversation with Ashley Merrill.
︎
Over the years, Lunya has grown into a category-defining brand at the intersection of wellness, design, and, as Ashley puts it, "creative problem-solving." But for Ashley, achieving success means nothing without building a business—and living a life—fueled by intention. And in this interview, Ashley shared more about the relationship between creativity and pace, the complicated notion of balance, how she views slow storytelling, and how dreams show up in her daily life.
All of this to say, Ashley's story will surely slow you down and hopefully inspire you to dream. So whether you're enjoying a hot cup of coffee or letting our conversation help guide you into sleep, here's Ashley Merrill, founder of Lunya.
︎
Ashley Merrill: Full disclosure: I'm a parent. So, a decent amount of my time, outside of my profession, is oriented around my kids and my family—which I enjoy, but it certainly is a big piece of my time. Lately, I've tried to really prioritize hobbies again in my life, and I've taken up ceramics and woodworking. It's been really nice to be away from a screen and to be tactile in a different way. So I'm really enjoying those things. I'm not going to pretend I'm good at them. [Laughs] Because I'm very much an amateur. I have to say that's part of the joy of it, too. It's been really nice to be kind of amateur but [being] also okay with being amateur. They're practices that get to be about the journey instead of so much about the end result.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Is there anything you've made that you're particularly proud of or surprised by?
Ashley Merrill: Sure. Well, I am in progress with this console table, and actually, what it was was I dismantled an old coffee table, put all these planks together, and I'm trying to make this console table that'll go behind my couch in the living room. It is massive. I think I really underestimated what I signed up for when I started it, but I really love it because it's very organic.
I almost think of cooking like woodworking in that there are different ways you could approach it, right? There's like a measured sort of baking style approach where you could very much template it and make it very specific and try to hit all of your perfect dimensions. And then, like cooking, I have a general guideline of where I want to go, but then as an aspect of: I'm just going to kind of feel it out and go with what is happening in front of me. I've definitely taken the latter, and so I'm really enjoying that there's just an aspect of this table that is organic and natural. And also, when I mess up—and I'm like airing quoting messing up—but my new challenge begins to be to incorporate that and figure out how to like make that work for me.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Well, it's interesting. I feel like this is already a through-line that I'm seeing with your story. These are all things that you can make and have longevity in a way; even though you finish a meal, it's something that I think nourishes you and stays with you. So I love it. I definitely see the pattern. On that subject, Lunya—which we'll talk about shortly—is a celebration of rest, leisure, and creativity. But you know, aside from the company's origin story, I'd love to talk about your relationship with nighttime. Because I think when we think about rest and leisure, that period comes to mind. What rituals do you adopt at this time of day?
Ashley Merrill: It is a time of day, particularly in this stage of life, that I just look forward to. I just relish this time of day ... you know, running a business, which is incredibly fast-paced, and you've got an endless number of projects and needs, and then having children who I could almost describe the same way—an endless number of projects in needs—there's something about when I finally get to that last stage of my day, and it's the one time that like nobody needs anything from me, it feels really nice. Maybe some of that is whether you are an introvert or an extrovert. I love how someone defined this for me at one point, as it's not: Do you like being around people? But it's: What is the state you go to, to recharge?
And I am an introvert in that I do go towards solo behaviors to recharge myself. So I think that makes this all the more luxurious for me—that stage of the day—because I really just get to finally put my feet up. And so for me, what that looks like—and it's sort of funny because Lunya and Lahgo are absolutely designed for rest, that could be for sleep or for lounging around the house, but I, in particular, wear it all the time. So, for me, sometimes it just means shedding certain layers that I'm wearing. I think that the way I think about it a little bit is almost like a uniform. You know you put on a uniform to play on a sports team, and in a weird way, the uniform makes you look like everybody else, right? It gives you the same jersey as everyone because in the moments you're on a team, you're subverting the individual for the whole. So, the act of having clothes that reinforce that action is powerful. I think that sometimes dressing for the state of mind that you wanna be in has that same power. So, for me, there is an aspect of shedding whatever I had on in the day and having a sleep version of that. And so certainly that's part of it.
My best nights are the nights that I can have time to do all the creams and all my sort of beauty regimen[s] before bed. And I'm not really a big makeup person, so actually, most of my beauty routine is done at night ... then I usually make tea, and I'm very specific about my teas. I drink this Bengal spice or licorice tea. It's like one or the other. Then I get in bed, and I have this funny thing with my kids where I'm like: once my feet go up, I'm not getting out. Obviously, if [it's] something really bad—like houses on fire, or they're like throwing up—I will get out of bed. But, like, I've really tried to set the expectation that this is my time, you know? And so when I finally put my feet, it's like, "Oh my gosh, nobody's gonna ask me for anything. This is like really my time."
Sometimes, I get into a phase of reading where I love reading in bed. Sometimes, though, even that is too much. I almost need to just be more passive. I often watch TV in bed, which I know people will say is a no-no, but for me, it's great because it's a bit of a more passive process, and it lets me wind down without even, you know, having to be conscious of it. I mean, I watch tons of things, and then I put on Moving Art, which is this incredible show on Netflix. Have you heard of this before?
Rachel Schwartzmann: No, but tell me more. [Laughs]
Ashley Merrill: It's phenomenal. If you've ever seen Planet Earth—
Rachel Schwartzmann: I mean, it's the most soothing thing in the world.
Ashley Merrill: Okay. So this is that, but better. I know it's hard to believe that that exists. The whole thing is almost shot like a visual meditation, and it's all just to music. There's no verbal [component] at all. It's a series. And so, we put it on, and I put on a sleep timer, and it's almost like I'm a little kid who listens to like rain music or something. My body hears that and is instantly like [it's] time for bed. It's so funny.
So that's basically my nighttime [routine], and even to get crazier about it, I sleep with like five pillows, and I don't know if that makes me like princess of the pea here, but I have a whole regimen of pillows between the knees. I have a whole pillow. I have two pillows for my head. I have like a bunch of piercings on one ear. I have like an airplane pillow that I stick my piercings in—[it's] a whole thing. But I just basically am trying to create that moment between the clothes I wear, the tea I drink, the audio that's playing, that just helps my body kind of fade off into rest.
Rachel Schwartzmann: I mean, I know so much of our life has moved—for many of us—at home. So, to create that clear delineation that this is your safe space to really slow down and reconnect with yourself. It sounds amazing.
Ashley Merrill: And if I don't, I find it really hard to stop the buzzing of the day. You know, how like you're just going, and there's almost adrenaline in work—in a great way, to be honest, in a way that I really enjoy and keeps me very invigorated—but that buzzing also keeps me awake at night. So if I don't have an interim period that helps me kind of go from high-intensity work and kids into a relaxed state, I usually wake up at 3:00 AM, and that's the end of my sleep. So ... I have to really kind of work into it.
Rachel Schwartzmann: I've been saying recently that slowness in any form, whether it's online or offline, it really is a practice. And it's something that you have to choose every day. You know, life only affords so much space for that, but I think when we can hold on to those moments, it's really special. And it's something that I've learned. I think that has a lot to do with what you're doing in your business.
But just on the note of stories, I've actually been working my way through Nina MacLaughlin's columns for The Paris Review. And she has a really beautiful one called "The Moon in Full," and in one of her essays, "Long Night Moon," she says: "In those long nights, perspective is not skewed, but opened wider. The moon's silver quiet light allows for these encounters with the parts of ourselves that hide in caves, the banished parts. The moon knows: we need to see." Isn't that beautiful?
Ashley Merrill: That is beautiful. Wow.
Rachel Schwartzmann: And I bring that up because I believe Lunya was named with the moon in mind?
Ashley Merrill: It was, it was.
Rachel Schwartzmann: And so, on the subject of nighttime, the moon, Lunya, just for those who don't have the full backstory, I'd love to have you share how you arrived at this place where Lunya felt necessary and just give that context.
Ashley Merrill: Absolutely. Gosh, it's been a long time, which is also alarming to me. How did I get here? Ten years! It's been ten years since I had the idea, and the company has been launched for eight years.
So basically, I could relate to Lunya as a customer foremost. And what I mean by that is I was wearing my husband's old clothes around the house, trying to be comfortable, but also wearing a Star Wars shirt. So I walked by the mirror in our bedroom, and I remember looking at myself and being like, "Is this it? Is this what it's gonna be? Is this who I am now?" It was weird. Because ... I'd probably worn this outfit a hundred times, maybe more. For whatever reason, I really looked at myself at that moment, and I thought, "Okay, why am I wearing this?" I'm like, I'm wearing this to be comfortable because I'm at home, and I'm not going to be uncomfortable." So that was where I was at. And then I, again, was on a journey to be like: Could I buy something else that maybe makes me feel a little more put together, a little bit more like my best self, but also is comfortable? Would that exist? And [it] started me on a process.
I wasn't trying to start a business here. I was trying to solve my own customer problem, and I couldn't find something. I mean, to be honest, everything out there was lingerie or very traditional pajama sets. And neither of those really felt like what I was looking for. Then, a lot of the things that existed also felt novelty. So there were things that, if I were to try to use a good example, it'd be like a pair of pants with a giant bow around the waist. And it's like, "Well, that's really cute, but have you tried sleeping on a knot?" It's not so comfortable. Or all these tops that were spaghetti strings, and I was waking up with my arms twisted in them and thinking: "This is not designed functionally for sleeping. This is very cute, but nobody's thinking about the function at play here."
And so, anyway, it started me on a journey of looking for something that could really solve the problem that I was feeling like I was having. And there wasn't anything. As I reached out and asked other people what they were wearing around the house, I kind of realized, "Oh my gosh, this is bigger than me. This is something other people are struggling with." And a lot of people wearing substitute products—wearing their workout clothes around the house and all of this [stuff]. And I thought, "These are all synthetic fabrics. Do you really want to be wearing nylon pants all day and maybe all night?" That doesn't feel right, either. So that was really—if I go, what was the "aha moment" for me?—what it was. That started off really creating this whole company with the aim of helping people rest better.
I mean, it's pretty simple. And I think some of that is like bringing almost an athletic wear sensibility into problem-solving. It's obvious that you might want to wear a high-compression bra with adjustable straps when you're going to go for a run. Nobody's questioning that anymore. But when you sleep, you need straps that stay put because if you're on your side, you don't want to end up tangled in it. You need a waistband that doesn't ride up. You need pockets because you're walking around the house with your cell phone, and you need your free hand so that you can wash your face and make breakfast. These little, simple things—none of this is actually incredibly novel. It's just a sensibility that we really weren't bringing to sleep. We just didn't value it enough. And I felt like, my goodness, you know, this feels like something that's worth valuing.
I would add to that and say that over time, I got a lot more validation of the idea. I had children, and I experienced extreme levels of sleep deprivation, which most parents do. And I really looked at sleep in a different light. I was like, "Oh my goodness, sleep is the foundation of everything." I am an unpleasant person without sleep. I'm not capable of complex thoughts without sleep. I don't work out when I don't sleep. I don't eat well when I don't sleep. Like sleep is the hub of the wheel. It's everything. This is the thing that we should all be talking about. And so, over time, I gained even more conviction about the awareness and the problem-solving that we are bringing to rest.
Rachel Schwartzmann: To add to that, I don't function even on the most basic level without sleep. So what you've done is a necessary thing. And I think it calls to mind what I was saying earlier, which is that it's a choice to bring that sensibility and that thought to every aspect of our leisure experience, whether we're awake or asleep. [Laughs] So, would you say that Lunya is more of a design-based or wellness company?
Ashley Merrill: You know, that's a great question. I've never thought about it as an either-or. And I think it's almost like if you would ask Apple if they're design-based or tech-based. I think we're a problem-solving company [that] would be how I would describe us. I think good design is both functional and aesthetically pleasing. I think that it can be both. Good design is not just pretty but improves the experience of the wearer. It's definitely a high bar.
And I think that if you look at getting good sleep resting well as... and by the way, I think about that beyond product … Certainly, that's [why] Lunya and Lahgo are out there building incredible sleepwear and rest wear with the intention of helping in this way. But I do think what we're also trying to do, from a mission standpoint, is elevate the role rest plays in people's lives. Instead of competing for how little hours of sleep we get, let's change the stigma around rest. Actually, we really want you to prioritize rest because we want you to be clear-headed the next day ... we sort of joke at the company: work hard, rest hard. I'm not sitting here telling people not to show up to work and to rest all day. This is not the same thing. Rest is the unlock that lets you be the person you want to be. And I think that that's what wellness kinda does to you, too. I mean, it helps you live longer. It helps you show up healthier and fire on all cylinders. So, I would say rest is in service of your wellness, and I would say that design is in service of your rest.
Rachel Schwartzmann: It's interesting, though. When I speak with founders who are building something through these lenses, I'm always curious—or have become much more curious—about whether or not entrepreneurship, professional passion, and slowness can coexist. You know, we're seeing a lot of changes in the landscape in terms of how people are building companies, but I'm curious to get your thoughts just as a founder, a VC, and a parent.
Ashley Merrill: I think there's a tension here that, even as an advocate for rest, I'm not gonna be able to dispel. It's hard to make something meaningful without just straight-up time and energy. That is what I have to put into something. And I also think balance is a bit of a trap that we can fall into in that I think if you're looking at balance—is it myopic, if you're looking at it in the near term—if you're looking at balance in your day, in your week, I think it's harder. I think the safest way to look at balance is in a lifetime. The reason I say that is that we like to think we can multitask really well, but most of the studies show that you don't multitask well—that you think you're multitasking well, but you actually don't. I think people who can go narrow and deep can have more effectiveness, and I think that's true for anything you do, honestly. I think it's true for parenting. It's true for working out. Anything I can focus on, I can do a good job with. And so I think when we start to try to really push the narrative that you should be able to do all the things that would be part of how you would define a balanced life, at once, and that you should then somehow feel very zen and at while doing all that; I think that's going to be tough.
It sounds a little morbid, but I like to look at life from the vantage point of my deathbed. And I look back on life, and then I think: Was it balanced? And was it balanced based on the priorities that I believe in? So, for me, my buckets might be things like professional success. It could be creativity. It could be time with my children. It could be time [spent] traveling. Time with my spouse. I could make all these buckets of how I could use my time. And then, if I look back, I ask: Did I use my time well, and am I happy with that? And also time at leisure, to your point. There's a word, Otium, which is your sort of less productive time. Like the time that you'd spend woodworking, resting, or reading a book. How does that shape up? I think I have chosen a path that is more of an extreme path in that I'm going to be all in in my career. I'm going to go so hard on my career. I actually am notoriously not a good sleeper when I'm stressed out, which is part of the irony of this whole thing. But it's also why it matters so much to me.
I work so hard, but I'm also not going to do it forever. I'm going to roll the dice on life. I'm going to go really hard, and I'm gonna have an intense period of life that is very career-oriented. Instead of looking at it like I'm going to work sixty years and retire from the same job—I'm not saying people do that anymore—I'm going to try to work twenty years and go super hard and give it my all. And then, really, at that point, I'm going to have to find peace with wherever I'm at. And so that's really how I have approached balance and rest and how I think about those things.
Actually, it's interesting timing because I just appointed a CEO at Lunya, and this has been a huge unlock. [I'm] ten years on this company. And I finally looked at myself, and I thought: You know what? I spend a lot of time with my employees, helping them focus on what they're best at. Instead of going like, "Hey, you need to be this super, perfectly well-rounded human," it's like, "What is it that you're the best at? What is it that gives you life? What is it that gives you energy? What is it that you do better than other people? And almost how do you build a career over the long term that puts you in that direction?" I finally looked at myself, and I went: "Okay. If I did that same service for myself, what are the things I should be spending my time on? And how do I best contribute to this team?" And I went, "You know, it's probably not as CEO." I'm really helpful in a lot of the creative functions, supporting the marketing team and the product team and operating as a founder.
So I think you can't get caught in the trap of: I always want to be optimizing towards the most senior title in the room. It's a little bit of like: How do I make it so that I'm spending my time doing the things that are absolutely the best things for me to do? And it's absolutely a privilege to be at the place now where I can think that way. Early on, it was too bad. I couldn't afford a CEO, even if I didn't want to be the CEO. But now, the company is big enough that I could start to really optimize. I do think some of that connects to this idea of building balance in my life. And I'm thinking about, "Well, as a CEO, you gotta lead from the front." You're all in all the time. All the stress of the company's on you. I've done that for ten years, but I can get somebody else who's maybe even better than me at that. And I can shift my attention here. It's less stressful for me. And it's absolutely using my unique talents. Wouldn't that be great? So I don't know when you talk about balance and finding time for these things, I think it's very nuanced.
Rachel Schwartzmann: So, I guess with this new addition to the team, how do you think your relationship with pace is going to change?
Ashley Merrill: It's already changed a lot. And so we use the term "Ikigai," which is a Japanese word, and we have it as a company value. And it's this idea of doing the thing that brings you joy. It's sort of what I'm alluding to earlier. And figuring out what brings you joy is the intersection of what you're good at, what the world needs, what you can get paid for, and one other thing that I can't remember. You do this kind of exercise where you fill in all these things in these bubbles, and then you kind of work your way to the center. For me, creative problem-solving was at the center. It's not like there's a title, but there is a focus. When I spend my day creating problem-solving, I feel like I can show up more with joy. And why that's valuable is I think there are different kinds of exertion and tiredness. There's exhaustion from doing that, which needs to be done. And I would say there's stress associated with that, which is like the stress of what needs to be done, whether you like it or not. You just need to do it. It's the work that needs to be done. And for ten years, that's always what I would do. And then there's the difference of stress caused by excitement. There are energizing tasks, so, things that you need to do, but they're actually things that really speak to what's in the center of your Ikigai. Even though it's still tons of work, it's not putting negative stress on your body, and actually, you can really find joy in it. And so I do think that something like that is gonna be a big part of this next phase where I can make more time for creativity and rest because now creativity is a core part of what I'm responsible for at Lunya.
So, I get to spend a lot of my time doing things that I actually quite enjoy doing. I think there'll be more time for that. And you know, as a CEO, the buck stops with you. You're responsible for everything. Anything that doesn't go right is your fault, and everything that goes well is thanks to your team. It's a pretty tough job; you're on the hook for all the things. And so I will say, just not being responsible for everything is going to help me rest and help me have more of the balance that we were describing earlier.
Rachel Schwartzmann: So exciting. Congratulations.
Ashley Merrill: Thank you.
Rachel Schwartzmann: I see that you also joined the Museum of Contemporary Art.
Ashley Merrill: Yes.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Being part of their Acquisition and Collections Committee. And then, given some of the other interests that you described earlier and habits that you're forming, what have been some unexpected discoveries that you've made about yourself through these other interests and lenses? And how do you think it'll affect your ability to creatively problem-solve moving forward?
Ashley Merrill: You're exactly right. I joined the Acquisitions Committee of MoCA, and then I also joined the board at LACMA. I did that because I really want to—as part of someone who is gonna be close to creative—stay close to what's happening creatively in the world.
Good inspiration comes from all over the place, and you do have to leave your house for it occasionally. [Laughs] So I was trying to figure out: where do I put myself that I'm getting different exposure and inputs? And so, it has been really exciting for me to play a role in that I almost need an endless amount of ideas. And I do think that most ideas are not completely original. Most ideas that you have come from adapting some concept, or some idea, some creative intuition, and ... reinterpreting it in a new way.
I think about it almost like in marketing. There's a concept of a marketing funnel, and this idea of you trying to bring a lot of people in the door through awareness. Then there's a consideration phase at the upper middle of the funnel where you're trying to help; you're kind of weeding through people and seeing who your customers are and what message you need to give them to help them understand the value proposition. And then there's purchase behavior. Then there's retention: how do you keep them engaged with the brand?
I think of that almost as if I were to apply that to myself: the wider my funnel is at the top from a creative expression idea, the more ideas I have in there. Then I still have to filter through them, but it's really hard to go be creative in a vacuum, you know? So I have to forcibly open the top of my funnel so that I'm interacting with fresh ideas, fresh concepts, artistic applications, and things like that.
Rachel Schwartzmann: That's probably the most humanizing way I've heard the marketing funnel described. [Laughs] So I love that. And I think building on that a little bit in terms of storytelling, whether it's through your lens or through Lunya's, something that I'm really interested in, similar to movements like slow fashion and slow food, I launched Slow Stories out of an interest in speaking with founders and creatives about how those movements, values, and practices could be applied to our digital lives and our stories. And so, with all of that said, I'm curious to hear what this idea of slow content or storytelling means to you and what you're doing with Lunya and Lagho's brand storytelling.
Ashley Merrill: Well, it's kind of a cool time to be talking about it because we are definitely reinvigorating our content and storytelling approach. We have this wonderful person who joined our team. She's our VP of Brand, and I think that one of the things that she's really coached us on is real clarity and focus of messaging and storytelling and owning our space. You know, it's almost like the temptation of shiny objects is everywhere, and so how do we really focus? What is the area we own? And sometimes, we use this idea of creating a sandbox: What is our sandbox that we get to play in? And let's define that so clearly so that we can have fun with it. So when we think about what's happening with storytelling, we're very excited. We're actually working on a newsprint and a web destination, which are all really focused around rest.
And this idea of being: what are the things that would be really interesting that you would like curation and authority on? And how do we work backward into that? And that could be anything from bedroom tours. Sometimes—I mean, I love interior design—I get bored with the bedroom because it's like, it needs a bed, and it's pretty specific. But creating a space that you love to go into is magical; as I told you, that's my favorite time of the day when I put my feet up. A lot of that has to do with a combination of lots of details of the room design that helps make it do that. That's things like lighting, the bedding, the pillows, the drawer on my side table, all these things, right? They all come together to create a vibe.
And so we're like, yeah, let's do that. Or, you know, as I said, I have like a whole bunch of creams and things I put on. I love knowing what other people swear by and what they love. And so I'm always interested in: "Oh, you have a skin type like mine; what's working for you?" Or what they're reading. It's very much like what's on their nightstand, right? Like, what are they reading when they're going to bed? And I like to find people who can inspire me and help me think differently about that time of day. I could go on and on; I mean: restful retreats, places that you'd go, gifts that you'd give that are oriented around rest, even diving into our product a lot more and helping people understand the amount of time I spend with my team, agonizing over everything about our product. It would blow anybody's mind. They're like, "How can you talk about a road for that long?"
But that's how we approach it. We are not a super fashion-forward proliferation brand. We are a fewer, better things brand, really. We are carefully curating the choice of a robe. There's a reason our robe's been around a long time. We did customer feedback sessions where we got everybody to tell us what they hated and loved about the robe. And like our robe is slit up the front, so you don't trip up the stairs. It's got narrow sleeves so that you can wash your face. It's got an attached belt because everyone said they lost theirs. It's got deep pockets. It's got absorbent fabric by the neck. It's less bulky because everyone said they felt like they were drowning in their robe. It's got a little modesty hook on one side so that you don't flash the Postmates guy. I can keep going. That's rattling off a few things, but that's just one product. And so, a lot of the time, we want to help explain to people.
I think rest is becoming increasingly valued culturally. I definitely think people realize that with burnout culture and people working all the time, I think they're starting to appreciate the need for replenishment and sort of revitalization in a way that I don't think they did before. And so, we want to be a resource to help support people in that journey.
Rachel Schwartzmann: So, on that note, as you continue to build out narratives and platforms that support these ideas, is there a question that you hope people will start asking you more often in terms of building habits around rest or anything in that sort of realm?
Ashley Merrill: One thing I will say, and I think it's a helpful, almost a metaphor or helpful way to think about it, is that our body is hardware, a model, right? It was designed and has changed very little in the past thousand years. But if you think about how we're using this hardware and how much we've updated the software, so to speak, how much we've adapted to a changing world in the past thousand years, it's enormous. I mean, forget it. I'm only thirty-eight years old; the computer didn't even exist when I was young. I mean, I was barely using a computer. I was using it, but barely in college. And then a phone, which, you know, is basically a computer in my hand, this didn't start following me around and having the world of information at my fingertips until very recent history.
And so why do I say all that? Because I think we have to respect the limitations of our hardware in a way that maybe we don't. We're constantly pushing ourselves for more and more and more, more, more, and then we are seeing that people are getting really burned out and they're dealing with insomnia or depression, or they're dealing with a lot of mental health things that maybe weren't as prominent before. And I want people to start making the connection between rest and their health because I think that there's a world where... I'm not saying don't work hard and go out there and kill it and build the company and do that. Do that. But you know, on the weekend, turn it off. Or do that, but then make there be a time: give yourself the ten years to do it or whatever it is. But if you're gonna expect your hardware to run twenty-four hours a day, three hundred and sixty-five days a year until the day you retire, I think you're going to be disappointed.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Another helpful metaphor, for sure. This conversation's been full of such beautiful imagery. So thank you for that. But is there a question that you want to come up in conversation more? I'm always curious because I think in an age where everybody has access to share what they think, I hope that projects like Slow Stories foster a little bit more active listening and curiosity.
Ashley Merrill: I think it's almost more about asking yourself: Is this intentional? That's where I mean: if you're passively thinking you're gonna kill yourself by working and going—it's not just the work, and I don't want to make this just about work because it's not just about work—it's also just this over-optimization mentality where I'm on a work call, but I'm like ordering my Amazon prime, and getting my groceries delivered, and, coordinating my kids' pick up after school. I'm replacing the plate that broke yesterday, and I am doing a thousand things at once. That is going to take its toll. So I think you have to step back and go: What am I going to intentionally say yes to? And I can't say no to all the things that stress me out—that's, sadly, usually not an option—but what are the things that I'm going to intentionally say yes to?
I remember when I was like: I'm intentionally going to work like a crazy person because I'm not setting myself up to do this forever. And I am going to intentionally have kids. And actually, I also intentionally made the decision to have a really involved nanny for the first five years of my kids' life. I told myself when they're five, which is when they start to form more specific long-term memories, that's when I need to intentionally reprioritize again. So instead of telling myself that I'm going to be this hardcore entrepreneur and super mom—make the perfect lunch boxes, give my kids matching outfits, and have the best birthday parties on the block—I'm opting out of that. I'm not opting out of parenthood, but I'm opting out of that type-A approach to it for this period of time. That enables me to kind of go, "Okay, not everything can be the priority, and what are the things that I'm choosing?" So I think: Is this intentional, or am I just running on the treadmill? Because I think if you're really intentional with your time, you can pick your priorities and have excellence in your life. You can build a business that's fabulous. You can have kids that love you and feel like you're involved. You can do all of those things, but just maybe not at the same time.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Sometimes, that's a hard lesson to learn.
Ashley Merrill: Yeah. And I think, sadly, a lot of us learn it by hitting the wall.
Rachel Schwartzmann: And I think to your point about creating more space for intentional moments outside of over-optimizing, something I've loved kind of rediscovering, it might sound silly, but I've loved discovering daydreaming again. And so there's just so much more we could speak about in terms of what's next for you and Lunya, but I actually want to close things out by talking about dreams.
Ashley Merrill: Alright.
Rachel Schwartzmann: And so I have a two-part question. First, can you share a dream that you had recently? [One] that you woke up and really moved you in some way?
Ashley Merrill: Goodness, let me think about that... What's the second part of this question?
Rachel Schwartzmann: Yes. So, what's a dream that you're having in your waking life? What are you dreaming about these days, personally, professionally?
Ashley Merrill: These are big. These are really big. I actually had one, and I'm trying to remember it. I dream a lot. Instead of one dream being incredibly pivotal or impactful... what I would say is that my dreams are sort of a report card for my mental state. So if I'm having a lot of anxiety, dreams, or stress dreams, which, you know, we all know what those are. And sometimes, they don't even relate to the subject.
I have a lot of dreams about standing at the edge of a pool and being unable to move and watch people fall in. That sounds horrible, I know, but that kind of dream is telling me that ... I'm feeling out of control in my life. It's almost like it's giving me a little bit of a warning signal. Then, sometimes, I grind my teeth. I wear these like night guards or whatever, but I'll have dreams where I am chewing on something like a ton of pieces of bubble gum. And I can't get it out of my mouth. It sounds crazy—I realize I sound like a crazy person—but that's me grinding my teeth in stress, you know? And so I think what I look to my dreams for is almost like a litmus test for how I'm doing. So I would say that's really how my dreams show up in my life.
Rachel Schwartzmann: It's like a mirror.
Ashley Merrill: It's a mirror. It's the unfiltered version of where you're at. And lately, what I will say is that I've been sleeping well, and I am waking up with creative ideas. And that's what I mean by: Is it energizing stress or depleting stress? I think that I wake up being like, "Oh my gosh, I just saw this campaign that so and so did. What if we did some version of that, but we changed this, and this, and this?" I'll wake up with that kind of thing, but that feels invigorating and exciting. And so when I have that happen, that to me says, like, "Oh, I'm playing in my Ikigai right now. I'm playing in my sweet spot."
Rachel Schwartzmann: So, are there any dreams or things that you're hoping to do?
Ashley Merrill: Yeah. I mean, when I think about daydreams, to your second question, I would almost call that more like fantasy, or what do I aspire to? I'm very much aspiring to a more tactile kind of creativity. There's a difference between cooking dinner and cooking dinner because you need to eat. I actually like cooking, so I realize some people don't like cooking; this is not going to resonate, but... I have a garden in my backyard, and there's a difference between going out to the garden and seeing what's ripe and then looking it up and getting inspired and spending a day—sort of slow cooking—and making the cooking less of a task in more of a creative process.
And so for me, a lot of what I aspire to do is to feel less rushed and have everything feel less of a to-do and get to enjoy the things—you know, they're to-do's, but they're things that you can enjoy. You can find enjoyment in your everyday... I need this console table, but I'm not rushing it because the process of it is really enjoyable, too. And actually, that's hard for me not to rush this [or] try to knock it out inside of a weekend. So when I think about what am I dreaming for, [and] what am I hoping for? It's a general slowdown. Not because I want to do nothing—I'm not trying to atrophy as a human—but because I want to appreciate the things that I'm doing more.
︎
Rachel Schwartzmann: That was my conversation with Ashley Merrill, founder of Lunya. You can shop Lunya online at https://lunya.co/ and follow them on social @lunya. Also, check out Lagho, which provides sleepwear for the modern man, at https://lahgo.co/. You can also follow Ashley on social @ashley__merrill. Stay tuned, as we'll be sharing highlights from this episode on our own channels @slowstoriesofficial on Instagram and @slowstoriespod on Twitter. I'm Rachel Schwartzmann, and you've been listening to Slow Stories. Thank you so much for tuning in.