Rachel Schwartzmann: Welcome to Slow Stories. I’m Rachel Schwartzmann. I'm a writer, creator, and the author of Slowing: Discover Wonder, Beauty, and Creativity through Slow Living from Chronicle Books.
For those of you just tuning in, Slow Stories is a multimedia project that began with this podcast and now includes a newsletter on Substack. There, I write about things like time, creativity, and pace—and on this show, I interview artists, entrepreneurs, and innovators who share slow stories—and big ideas—about living, working, and creating in our digital age.
Before we get into the episode, I wanted to quickly thank everyone who has shown support for Slowing in some way, shape, or form. Publishing a book—a first book, no less—is truly an all-consuming experience, and I'm so grateful to have received support and encouragement from readers around the globe. That said, if you want to show your support for Slowing, and if you've read and genuinely enjoyed the book, consider leaving a review, as this will help Slowing find even more readers.
As a reminder, you can also follow Slow Stories on Substack for a behind-the-scenes look at bringing a book to life, and follow me [on social media] @rachelschwartzmann for real-time updates.
For now, I'll leave you with this refresher on the book: Slowing caters to many literary sensibilities: essay and memoir, creative wellness, and personal growth. Language and lyricism are front and center, but there is also a practical component. There are various ways you can engage with and experience this book. For that reason, I don't know where exactly you'll find it on the shelf, but I'm confident it will fit somewhere in your home. That's where I wrote it, and that's what it means to me. I can't wait for you to read it!
Now, on to the episode, which begins with an opening story from the artist Maggie Featherstone, who shares musings on poetry, painting, and presence. Here’s more from Maggie.
Maggie Featherstone: I'm Maggie Featherstone, and I'm a visual artist and writer.
A little while ago, I began volunteering with the Wild Bird Fund, a rehabilitation center in Manhattan's Upper West Side. Every week, I cleaned the cages of injured pigeons who stared at me with their wild, spectacled eyes as I carefully rolled up the faces of politicians and celebrities stuccoed by droppings in the New York Times. We spoke to them in hushed tones and moved like dancers slowed down to halftime. A resident grackle often sat on my shoulder while I sanitized syringes, rearranging the loose strands of my hair. It was slow work, but it could also be devastating. During seasonal migration, scores of birds were delivered in paper bags. Many of them were injured beyond repair, but some of them were merely stunned. Tall buildings had obstructed their flyaways, disorienting them with reflective surfaces they had flown towards the sky that did not exist.
Lately, I've returned to this theme at my easel, studying the resilient softness of each hollow bone structure. Yet, even in this sacred creative space, I still sometimes get fixated against my will on what the response to my painting will be on social media. The notion of future admiration is of course, at odds with the present. It's called to mind a stanza from a poem I encountered in Fiona Benson's gorgeous book, Vertigo and Ghost, entitled “Sparrows.”
Today, as I mix the colors with my brush, golden ochre ivory, [and] burnt umber, I will myself to move at the pace of my gentlest, most breakable self—each slow stroke, its own migration toward the world I want to live in. However devastating, the one that is real.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Thank you so much again to Maggie for sharing. Again, the poem she referenced is “Sparrows” from the collection Vertigo and Ghost by Fiona Benson. You can also follow Maggie on social media @maggiefeathers and view her artwork online at maggiefeatherstone.com. Now, here's my conversation with Gloria Noto.
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As the founder of NOTO Botanics, a multi-use, gender-inclusive, clean cosmetic line, Gloria and her team are committed to “championing ferocious individuality, while cultivating a creative and mindful community along the way.”
Gloria’s extensive experience as a celebrity makeup artist, contributor, and former founder of THE WORK, an arts and culture publication, lends itself well to this mission: In many ways, NOTO’s true beauty lies in its ability to push the narrative of how we can all relate to beauty and identity more seamlessly. Gloria’s personal commitment to storytelling has also maintained NOTO’s longevity in our rapidly changing world—and helped her reimagine what life looks like outside the pressures of entrepreneurship. Enter Gloria’s Substack, Studio Noto, a personal journal featuring essays, musings, and prompts.
With the latter in mind, Gloria is currently cultivating a chapter rooted in the intangible—at a pace that’s hers to define. And in this interview, she shared more about her evolving relationship with work and creativity, what qualities are present in her visual “toolkit,” and how the idea of time, grief, and solitude have changed throughout her life.
Gloria and I spoke in early January as wildfires devastated Los Angeles, where she currently resides. Despite the difficult days surrounding our conversation, Gloria’s candor and story proved to be a testament to resilience—and the power that comes when we slow down and hone in on what truly makes us happy. But I don’t want to give too much more away, so on that note, here’s Gloria Noto, founder of NOTO Botanics.
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Gloria Noto: Who I am outside of what I do is a fine line because what I do is very much who I am. I have like excessive amounts of Capricorn in my chart, so my work is my being. I think maybe a lot of us relate to that. But beyond maybe what people see the most of, I think the biggest part of who I am is somebody who likes to create and share things, whether that's, you know, through art or through meals or through putting my hands in play or like making something for my house. I like to consider myself somebody who needs to have beauty all around them—and however that can be made—that is a big part of who I am: Somebody who needs to create to live and be happy.
I deeply enjoy downtime. Downtime, specifically with my partner and my dog. I really enjoy being near them and sharing that space. I really enjoy my connections in my life—my deeper connections in my life, which are really limited. I have a few very close friends. I probably need to expand that a little bit more because I probably exhaust those relationships a little bit. But the deeper real connection is the main thing I enjoy the most and sharing space with those people.
And then what I value: I'm sort of a one-track mind on some of these things where I like to think of myself as a highly dynamic person, but the things that I need to make myself happy are very simple, streamlined things, which is art. I really value my time. My time is deeply precious to me, which is probably why it's nearly impossible for me not to work for myself, no matter what. Even if I am unable to pay myself 90% of the time, you know, I'm paying myself with my time. So, time for me, I would sa,y is one of my most valuable things.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Absolutely. How has it changed in recent years?
Gloria Noto: Well, before I started my company, and I still do this from time to time, just to kind of keep my fingers in the pot, I think is the phrase, as a makeup artist. I've been a makeup artist now for I think over twenty years at this point. But for a good thirteen of those years, I was full-time makeup and in a way you work for yourself, but really you're freelance and you have to just take every single job that you can. because you never know what the next month or year is going to be like. So I really didn't have any time for myself and kind of had a little bit of a breakdown realizing this. That's kind of what made me want to start my company because I was like, there's a need for this concept—and then I also need to have more transparency and I guess, control—which isn't really a real thing—but over my time.
So over the last nine years of running my company, I'm not working any less, but it's like on my time if you will. If I want to start my day at six, I can. If I want to start my day at ten, I can, you know, unless something's pressing. If I want to take a break in the middle of the day, if I want just take a complete day off and just lay horizontal I can. Being able to work remotely if I need to, being able to direct it in the way that is best for me is such a luxury. Like I said, even if I'm not necessarily even paying myself what I maybe was making before, to me it's more luxurious, and that is the valuable payment that I'm offering myself.
Rachel Schwartzmann: When you're in different environments, does your relationship with it shift? Because I meant to ask you just out of curiosity, I just went to Amsterdam, and so did you. I felt very, very grounded in a way that I hadn't probably in months [and] I'm curious: Did you like the city? How does travel sort of influence your relationship with time and pace? Because you travel a lot for work too.
Gloria Noto: I love that you said that about Amsterdam. I felt the same way. I was just—
Rachel Schwartzmann: It’s such a special place.
Gloria Noto: So special. We were there for Christmas, we were only there for a few days, and then towards the end of it, I was like, I think I could live here. Maybe it's maybe too slow pace, I don’t know, but I love it here. And then we went to Paris, and I was like, no, no, no, I, I want, I want to leave and I love Paris, but the direct comparison, I was just like, I would live in Amsterdam. I felt really grounded time—if we’re referencing time—-felt so calm and peaceful. I was actually really inspired. My partner works in advertising, and they have an office there, so we were imagining like, okay, if life took us there, would I be happy here? And I was like, I could absolutely be happy here.
Rachel Schwartzmann: I think if you can say that in winter, it's very telling.
Gloria Noto: Yes. One hundred percent. My circadian rhythm and my happiness are very much tied to sunlight. And I was like, I can still be happy here.
Basically kind of back to the time thing and what I just said about sunlight and daytime and those sorts of things, I am deeply affected by location, and it does affect my ability to be creative or ability to be productive even. And strangely enough, in LA, I actually feel really productive even though, a lot of the time, you just want to go hang out outside. But since the light is so bright and beautiful, I'm charged by that. So, I always feel very energized and productive there.
In New York, I don't want to move. I don't want to leave wherever I'm staying. It's very odd. It's too much energy. It's too much sound. I think I'm highly affected by sound as well, and I mean I know I am. So yeah, location is very much a part of what pulls out different versions of myself.
Rachel Schwartzmann: For sure. I've been in New York—actually my 20th anniversary in New York is in a few weeks in February.
Gloria Noto: Wow.
Rachel Schwartzmann: But I spent a lot of my childhood moving around. I was born in California, I lived in Texas, moved a bunch here in the city. But you definitely learn to pay attention to the city and also to yourself based on where you end up. And we're speaking at a really charged moment—so feel free to disregard this question if it's too much—but just as we talk about place, how do you think this crisis is going to inspire you to pay attention now to LA moving forward?
Gloria Noto: I'm going to be brutally honest and maybe this will change with some time, I wish I could say, what's happening right now has inspired me to like to buckle down and dig into LA more and California more and fight it out and all these things. I absolutely love living in California, and I love California and I love LA, but I'm not going to lie, like, are we supposed to live in LA? Are we supposed to live in California and these places we're living in? Is nature [only] supposed to be what's living there and not us? I'm fearful for the city. This isn't going to be the last time this happens, hopefully not as catastrophically as it's happening right now. But I wonder, is it time for me to go somewhere else.
But I'm not turning my back on my city right now. There's so much to do, there's so much to rebuild. It makes me want to support our community even more. And I have so many new ideas on how to do that. My neighbors are doing that as well. This is home to so many people and it's such an incredible town and there are so many incredible communities, and I feel safe being who I am there and living the lifestyle I live there and so on. So I'm not done with it yet, but it's definitely made me consider is there a new phase of my life that might be coming where maybe it's in a different space.
Rachel Schwartzmann: That's fair [and] valid. And I don't think for a second that having those thoughts means you're turning your back on the city. Sometimes loving is leaving and creating distance in order to support or to think about how you can best take up space in that place. But yeah, I recognize that's a hard question.
Gloria Noto: It's a question that I don't have a fully formed answer to, but a lot of thoughts are running through my mind, and I'm sure a lot of people are asking themselves [it]. I'm grateful my apartment wasn't affected, but it was very, very close to where it was. And you know, I'm one of the lucky ones and I feel this way. So I can only imagine those who haven't been lucky how they're feeling about their relationship to LA.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Yeah, I can't imagine how you begin to navigate it.
I guess on a little bit of a lighter note, as you maybe look to new chapters, I'm curious if there's anything new you've come to appreciate recently, whether it's in your work, [or] in your creative practice.
Gloria Noto: Yes, well, so many things. Some,times the irony of appreciation or new appreciations or reflecting on it can be appreciating what you have already. Because we are always sort of looking on the outside of what we may want or want to become or want to do. We can kind of forget about what we have. And I'm deeply appreciative for my partner—they live in Portland, so [I’m appreciative for] our second home in Portland, and being able to have the opportunity of going between two worlds.
I'm deeply appreciative of my journaling/vision writing practice that I have. It's like therapy for me. I've done many, many years of therapy and this has been one thing that has stuck out for me that has helped me ground myself and also fantasize in a way that gives me direction—because there are so many things that I want to do or I'm interested in or there are so many things happening at once that this practice has really helped me to sort of remember who I am and remember what I want and check in with myself and allow myself to change what I want—but being aware of that change, if that makes sense.
So my writing and visualization practice is definitely a big one that I'm really grateful for because I think at the end of the day, the most important thing is being able to connect with what's going on in your mind and in your body and in your soul and joining those things to make sure that you're living a life that you're aware of. You know what I mean?
Rachel Schwartzmann: Yeah. And it's interesting, I mean you mentioned control earlier. Does it give you a sense of control or is it really more of a release?
Gloria Noto: Control is not real. You know, I think that sometimes we can self-soothe by believing that there's some sense of control and sometimes I like to play along with that a little bit. But one thing that I've realized over the last couple years, especially not only with everything going on in the world, but also deeply within my personal life that I don't want to try to have control because there's no point to that. It's just not real. In a sense though, I do think awareness, it's not control, [but] it's a reflection and it's being able to step back and observe and understand where things are going or where they're headed and check in with yourself and make sure that that's what direction that you want to be going in.
Rachel Schwartzmann: For sure. And I think as we talk about writing and this practice that you've cultivated, obviously this podcast is called Slow Stories and storytelling is a really huge part of what we're exploring, especially in the context of time and pace. And I thought it would be interesting to have you read some excerpts from your recent Substack, Studio Noto, So maybe we can pause here and have you read first from “Me (you) in 3 words?”
Gloria Noto: Yes, absolutely.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Do you want to give a little background on the piece as well?
Gloria Noto: Sure. So I guess, you know, entering [age] 50 recently, I just kind of—and this is something maybe I've been doing forever—[started] looking at who I am, who I'm becoming, trying to get to know myself deeper understanding [of]: What do I like moving into this new time in my life? Am I still liking the same things that I used to like or am I still the same person? What has changed has really kind of helped me reflect on that. I guess as frivolous as this might sound—-especially with everything happening right now—clothing, identity, fashion, how we present ourselves in the world, it can be looked at as something, superficial. However, it's also something we've been doing since forever. How we present ourselves and and how that relates to who we are is a really powerful tool, especially as a queer person and in the queer community and the trans community and gender and all these sorts of things. These are really, really important questions to ask ourselve. Are we connected to not only how we're presenting ourselves but also the things that we're choosing and buying and applying to ourselves? I think that it goes way deeper tha surface level and I know I'm not alone in that .
So this was a bit of an exercise that I had seen by Amy Smilovic, who's the founder of Tibi. She has a whole process of identifying elements—these three words and phrases that you could relate to as far as when you think about what you want to wear or what you want to buy and if they correlate to your core identity. Because there have been plenty of times—and continuously—where I will wear something and feel odd in what I'm wearing, and maybe it's because I'm not actually choosing it’s been chosen for me. Or I'm not really thinking about it in that way, and there's something that feels disconnected. This has been an interesting practice and understanding like, Alright, what are my core ingredients of sort of what makes me feel good in my clothes or in my skin? So this is an excerpt from a post called “Me (you) in 3 words?”.
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Rachel Schwartzmann: So as you talk about ingredients and kind of these details coming together, I'm curious, generally, what would you say is in your visual toolkit? What do you really need to be able to see the world and then translate it into the appropriate means—whether that's through NOTO, through your style, [or] through makeup artistry?Gloria Noto: Well, I think for me there's a few elements that are really important and that keep me coming back to myself. When I was younger I was like really, really, really goth and really dark and really all over the place in that world and punk. Then I kind of transitioned into being really femme and more minimal and all those sorts of things. There have just been so many transitions in my life—like stark transitions in my life, which was kind of mentioned especially towards the end … there are multitudes of the things that I'm interested [in], and I want to be or want to try. But I always come back to certain things—one of which is ambiguity. Androgyny is a really important factor for me. I love to play on the spectrum of confusion for the masses. What you see isn't necessarily what you get. Then there are the two elements of high and low—like highbrow and lowbrow kind of living in the same world with one another. It's thoughtful, it has the craftsmanship but it's not quite perfect. Perfection is never part of what I want. I don't think perfection is interesting enough for me. So there's kind of those three elements: androgyny on the spectrum of it and high and low. If I have those three elements in things that I'm doing, I'm very happy.
Rachel Schwartzmann: And that's been consistent.
Gloria Noto: That's been very consistent. Yeah.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Interesting. And I feel like Noto itself is such a distinctive visual brand. Given the strong stance on inclusivity and activism, I would imagine also addition to the visual elements, that language itself plays a really big role.
Gloria Noto: Massively.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Yeah. The name itself is yours. I'd love to hear a little bit more about language and story and how the idea of slow storytelling informs what you do with the business.
Gloria Noto: I mean, it's kind of the core of it, really. I've always sort of said that Noto is a front for storytelling. Running a business—I don't have to tell you, I think everyone knows—is not easy. You can be pulled in many different directions and have times in your business where you have the space, the freedom, the finances, even to be able to tell more stories. Then, at times you might be stretched so thin that you're just trying to keep afloat. So, throughout my company, there have been times where we've really been able to dig deep into the storytelling, and that has always been the number one priority for me. And being a platform to tell the stories that generally aren't told in especially the beauty space, which oftentimes are unconventional stories—whether that’s stories from minorities stories from people, or stories from trans people, or stories from women who don't know what to do with beauty and don't know how to use beauty, or men that love it. Everything in between. So the stories that we're able to tell with the faces that we use, the interviews that we do, the mutual aids that we support, the people that we hire, the people that we work with, I think that all of that's so interconnected in telling the story. I think that the beauty space can be such a toxic space of not telling those stories and kind of telling the same story over and over again.
At the end of the day, you know, I have to sell something in order to have a business. I don't have a business unless people are buying the thing. So there is a bit of a battle between those worlds of art and commerce, humanity and commerce, and those sorts of things. But we do try to be as human as possible. How we run things, whether that's the phrasing that we use on things, whether that's the descriptions that we use on our website, whether that's the faces that we use, the conversations we have with our customers, the events that we do, it's all interconnected and I'm learning every day that the language is ever-changing as well.
I think it's important not to stay where you started, you need to grow with what's going on. So ,for me, storytelling and language are pretty much priority and number on,e and it's just not that interesting to me without that. don't think I would really be interested in continuing to do it if I didn't have [stories], whether it's the stories we're sharing or whether it's the stories that our customers share with us, which is also a very big one too.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Yeah. And I feel like what you were saying, the tension between staying true to your core but also keeping your eyes open to what's happening in the world. There's a really big push against that right now, at least in this country—but that's probably a whole other conversation. I feel like a lot of those challenges are really heightened in our digital age. And I'm curious how you would kind of describe your relationship with pace in the digital age and how it's maybe evolved in the context of telling stories.
Gloria Noto: Hmm. I would say my relationship with the digital age—and the pace of it—is a tortured one. I mean maybe I'm saying this because I feel like I've been saying this forever, but I don't love digital life. It's not my favorite. I prefer IRL—however, I can't deny the fact that it's opened up new audiences to us and helped me learn new inspirations and keep in touch with what's going on in the world. I think I need to check myself a lot with that because I can kind of get drowned in the digital era, especially as a founder… I'll just give a simple example: if we have an ad that's out, the one that's going to do the best—the one where I'm in it in one way.
I think that's great because people still want to be connected to the story of what they're buying, but there's a lot of pressure, maybe on the founder, to stay in the public space for that. And so sometimes I might do things that maybe a version of me would not want to do, like have a TikTok or make content on the regular, or those sorts of things. But I've been trying to look at it a little bit more like storytelling and do with it what feels authentic or the most authentic while also operating a business. There's definitely tension and a push and a pull with me on a regular basis of like, okay, am I out there looking like a moron or is this actually helpful for people? So I do try to play in that space of like, all right, if I'm gonna do this, is it helpful in some way? Whether that's even just as being like visibility for what queerness can look like or whatever, or what minimalism can be in the beauty space or what have you. It's an ongoing battle with my relationship with the digital pace of things.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Think that's true of most people. It really ebbs and flows depending on where you are in your life. I even grappled with that in my book Slowing. There's a series throughout each section called “Timestamps,” just kind of a nod to sharing in real time. Everything seems up for grabs in a lot of ways.
Actually, as I think about the book, I'm not sure if you've read it yet—
Gloria Noto: I have.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Oh you have?
Gloria Noto: Yeah, I have it. Oh
Rachel Schwartzmann: Oh good, thank you. [Both laugh] Well, so you know that it's broken into three sections, beginning, middle, and end, which is sort of a nod to the idea of a story or slow story. You've obviously lived through many chapters and I'm kind of curious if there is a chapter now that you're rewriting.
Gloria Noto: I think that I am in [the] slowing down phase of my chapters. I've been such a workaholic my whole life and I'm still like, oh I have an idea and I want to make it happen, but it's a little bit more contained. I want a slower life, I want a smaller life—not a small life. Maybe when I was youn,ger I wanted to be the most successful makeup artist, or I wanted to have the biggest beauty brand out there, or whatever the case is. Now I'm in a phase of, alright, I wan to look at these core things that make me the most happy and how can I obtain those things in the most simplified way. I'm really into simplification in the last couple of years and you know, I gotta say my partner and the life that we're building together has also helped that out a lot.
They have an 8-year-old son and kind of for the first time ever, other than my dog [Laughs], reflecting on my life and my day-to-day and not having it be all about me has been really beautiful, to be honest. Maybe my weekend might be consumed with making pizza and watching Spirited Away and playing with slime and being totally okay with that—and actually maybe fulfilled a little bit. I'm not saying I'm giving up on my dreams and all those sorts of things, but I'm in the phase of building a life with somebody right now and that is a really special and important part of where I'm at with things—because I've never done that before. I come from a very, very abusive childhood that didn't have any of those comforts or any of the feeling of building a life with somebody or being considered, really. So that's sort of the phase I'm in right now where it's like: How can I continue to grow a healthy, beautiful business that's simplified but also really focusing on this other side of my life that feels really good?
Rachel Schwartzmann: I'm so happy for you.
Gloria Noto: Thank you.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Do you think then your partner has taught you how to be in the present moment? Do you like being in the present moment now?
Gloria Noto: Yes, absolutely. I love being in the present moment. I mean, I've always loved the idea of being in the present moment, and there have been times when I have been able to be more there and times when I have not. I would say even before meeting them, I was starting to go into that space, which I think has helped me gracefully flourish in that space right now. I was kind of forced to be in that space about two years ago, when [redacted] really hit the fan for me. I think I hit a rock bottom, and a lot of the time, unfortunately, rock bottoms help us [and] force us to be in the present space—if you work through it. I think being in the present space is also an awareness of letting go of control and realizing you don't have it. Once you can do that, being present is way more easy.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Yeah, I would agree. And I think, as we continue getting into your story, maybe we can pause here and have you read again from [Studio Noto].
Gloria Noto: Alright, this one is an excerpt from a piece I wrote called “My Birthday Trip to Puliga.” This is a really important thing for me. Just a little backstory: Me and my ex had a home that we purchased outside of LA in the mountains and I had thought that that was like a really big deal—and it was—and then probably something that made us stay together longer than we should have. One of my big dreams was to start to create a little bit of a world in Europe. I had my citizenship, my family's from Italy, and that was not something they wanted, so it didn't feel like it was going to be something for me. But when that relationship ended and we sold the house I’ve been able to use my small portion of what I received—I’m in the process of purchasing a townhouse in Puliga, and that has brought a lot of ancestral healing to me. And also on my 40th birthday, me and my friend had a joint birthday party and we went to Puliga,and my really close friend group got to see the townhouse along with me actually for the first time.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Oh wow!
Gloria Noto: [Laughs] Which was really, really special. But anyway, here is an excerpt from that writing.
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Rachel Schwartzmann: I love it.I know we've talked a lot about your professional endeavors and insights, but I think this story [you just read] sets us up to talk more about personal stories, if you don’t mind. Recently I've been asking this in a lot of my interviews because I've been reading a lot about family dynamics, secrets, and relationships and it's really interesting to me just in my own writing practice. So, all of that said, I'd love to know: Does creativity play a role in your family's history? Who do you think you inherited your creative curiosities from?
Gloria Noto: That's one great thing about my family. My parents are both incredibly creative people. I basically learned from both of them that you can work for yourself—because they both do or did. My mom was an interior designer and growing up with her as a kid, I thought she was absolutely crazy with her aesthetic. But looking back at it, I'm like, wow, that was actually pretty cool, and [she was] quite talented. I mean, we lived in a condo once and [there were] vertical blinds [that] were metallic silver and white leather couches and faceless mannequins and zebra-print carpets and I wish I had all that [now]. And then my dad is, I guess you would call it like a metal worker or a metalsmith. He owns a company where he makes these really intricate raw iron fencing and tables and all that stuff. They're both very creative people, so I wasn't really exposed to anything other than being an artist as a possibility.
Rachel Schwartzmann: I'm sure it wasn't without its challenges, though.
Gloria Noto: No, I mean, there were many times with my mom when we didn't have food because she didn't get paid yet or whatever the case was. And my dad was totally out of the picture in his own little world. So it was hard and it wasn't like we had conversations like, oh, you wanna be an artist, Gloria, great, we support you in that. There just wasn't a conversation, but I guess it’s just naturally it's embedded in you and you're like, oh, that's what they did. And, and not even knowing that as I was growing up, being like, I can only work for myself. I have no other choice because I don’t know how to do it otherwise.
Rachel Schwartzmann: What were you like as a child or even like as a daughter, do you see a separation between those two ideas? [Between] childhood and daughterhood?
Gloria Noto: Uh, when I was—
Rachel Schwartzmann: Again, if we're venturing into [difficult territory]…
Gloria Noto: No, no, it's fine, I'm actually just reflecting on it. As a little kid, I just wanted to be the best kid ever because it was such a messed up situation. My mom had just gotten divorced from my dad and I was really little and we were kind of living in weird places and I don't think I was really being taken care of very well, but I really, really wanted to be a good kid.
Then as I got older I was sort of like [redacted] this, I’m out of here. I want nothing to do with you people. And I just realized there was a turning point when I realized as a kid that I have no space to be me. The irony of not being taken care of very well, there was also deep control—like, I couldn't do anything. I wasn't allowed to do anything. I couldn't be myself; I couldn't say anything, yet there was nothing happening in there where I was being considered [about what] I'm interested in or who I am as a person. There was no space for that. So as I started to realize this, I knew there was something in me that was a little bit like, You’ve got to get out of here, or else you’re never going to know yourself. And so that's why I left. I was like 15 or 16, and I didn't leave out of rebellion, and I left purely out of love for myself. And the realization that the situation I was in was not good for me. I'm the youngest of five and I kind of knew unless I wanted to end up like them, I had to get out of [t]here. So it was a bit of a contrast—a deep contrast of who I was as a little kid versus who I was as a young teenager.
Rachel Schwartzmann: I'd imagine that's hard being the youngest too. I'm an only child and I always think sibling dynamics are so interesting.
Gloria Noto: Well, I'm the youngest by a lot, so my siblings were kind of moved out by that point for the most part. So, it felt like I was an only child in a lot of ways. I was very lonely as a kid—very, very, very lonely as a kid. Once I was old enough to really kind of understand things more, I was able to reflect on them as older people versus siblings in my home with me. You know what I mean? And I was just like, I know I don’t want to be like that; I don't want to grow up and be like that. Sorry, to any family members that might listen to this [Laughs] but you know, I know we all did our best with what we had. I was grateful that I was able to reflect in such a mature way and I think that's because I had to grow up so fast.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Do you think you have a solid appreciation for solitude now?
Gloria Noto: Absolutely. I love solitude, but I think that I was for a long time I was in the lonely space of it. I mean, I got a freaking tattoo on my chest that says Mr. Lonely! [Laughs] I was really lonely for many years, but then I started to recognize that it's because II was never able to develop the skills on what it means to make close friends and community and get close to people in a real way—let people in a real way. It's funny how we can crave that but then not know how to allow it in our lives [and instead] actually push it away. There was a a point in my life, probably not that long ago, probably like fifteen years ago, where I really started to recognize, ah, you need to have close people in your life.
Once you can be fulfilled in that space, solitude is such a beautiful thing. I need it. Anyone that knows me knows I need downtime alone. And yeah, I also deeply crave connection. So it's an a really important thing that I have to balance. I can't spend too much time alone and I can't spend too much time around people. It's something that I'm very, very aware of. I'm definitely what they call an ambivert. It's a little bit of both.
Rachel Schwartzmann: I think I'm definitely an introvert to the core, which is interesting here in New York.
Gloria Noto: Absolutely. How do you manage that?
Rachel Schwartzmann: I just own it honestly.
Gloria Noto: Yeah.
Rachel Schwartzmann: I used to, I think when I was younger, try to put up front a little bit more, but it always just felt so inauthentic. And honestly, I think it came off pretty inauthentically, [Laughs] but there's a moment in the book where I wrote, I think I was in preschool—I was actually held back a year in preschool because I was so quiet and so shy—-I would tiptoe around the classroom, like physically tiptoe. But that never stopped me from being creative or wanting to express [myself]. So I think it's a really interesting duality that I've come to appreciate.
Gloria Noto: Absolutely.
Rachel Schwartzmann: And so where does creativity sit on the spectrum for you of needing alone time versus connection? How do you best make things?
Gloria Noto: Well, I wish I could say otherwise, but I best make things alone? It oftentimes comes in a spark. I'm like, oh, I have an idea to do the thing. Whether that's: I want to make a new candle or I want to play with this scent or I want to make this book. I launched a planner and that kind of just spewed out of me and I like put it together in like three days. Or if it’s a new product; if I'm really curious about this color or whatever. It always like kind of happens immediately and I kind of have to get into it immediately, and that is usually when I am alone and I have the space for that. Then I oftentimes will spend time alone making the thing, but the thing is meant to be shared—it's never just for myself, it's like always something I'd see either for a friend or for my company or for a new endeavor that I'm trying or whatever. But I do work better in the initial creation space of something when I'm alone. I do wish I was more collaborative, to be honest, but I'm best alone in that world,
Rachel Schwartzmann: That's totally valid. I wonder too, just kind of looking at the entirety of your story and all of the things that you've navigated and created in turn, something that's come up a lot in these conversations with other creative people, whether they're writers or artists, is grief because so much of the storytelling and expression we do really honors the things we've lost or want to remember. And I wonder what creativity has taught you about grief or vice versa? What grief has taught you about creativity?
Gloria Noto: Well, I think what grief has taught me about creativity is that it can come at times and in ways that you may even feel ashamed of. Grief is something that I have discovered in a new way over the last two years. About almost two years ago, especially my sister passed away.
Rachel Schwartzmann: I'm so sorry.
Gloria Noto: Yeah, it was an unfortunate accident that happened immediately and during that time there were many other things that were happening to me and it was sort of one of the last straws in my life where I was just like, what the hell is going on? Then cut to a type of grief I've never experienced and not knowing really what to do with it—not really knowing what it was or how it would come out. Never experienced that before. You don't really know and I think grief is always different. It's never quite the same; [it] depends on what the situation is. But for me, in those specific times—and I hate to be one who finds most inspiration out of pain, but I'm definitely one of those people who does find that—creativity is an incredible way to soothe grief and to make sense of grief and to navigate grief. There were some creative projects that came out of that situation that I never would've thought I would do or be interested in or come up with… so I do think that grief and creativity could be best friends in a lot of ways.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Did it take you a while to get to that point?
Gloria Noto: I don't think I thought about it until maybe just now. [Laughs] I think it just kind of happened naturally and then reflecting on it was like I did and do a lot of creative things during some of the most painful times of my life.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Definitely. When I was writing Slowing, I wrote about this on Slow Stories’ Substack it was at the precipice of a really, I guess expected—but also unexpected—about with anxiety and depression in a really, really tangible way. It just completely consumed me for about a year, and of course, while I was writing, and I was really worried that that tone was going to sink into the book, but it also was generative in the sense that, yes, I need to also explain that to be slow is beautiful, but it can be really complicated and nuanced, and both things are valid.
Gloria Noto: Yeah. And you know, I've never really been a slow person, to be honest.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Neither have I. [Laughs]
Gloria Noto: It’s a transition, you know, like I said, sometimes maybe hitting rock bottom was a bit of a demand into slowing things down. I'm grateful for that because I've been able to take space and time in ways that I've never allowed myself to do ever. You know, as you kind of learned a little bit about my history, l’ve just been a bit of a fight or flight for a lot of my life and I think finally I've sort of realized I don't need to take thatwith me in this phase in my life. It can be a little bit different now.
Rachel Schwartzmann: You can walk alongside it instead of letting it consume you.
Gloria Noto: Totally. Yeah, I like that.
Rachel Schwartzmann: I think, too, a lot of getting to that point requires asking questions, whether it's of ourselves or others. And this is something I like to ask in all of the interviews, but I'm curious if there's a question that you hope people start asking you more often about art, grief, creativity, really anything that comes to mind?
Gloria Noto: Hmm, that's an interesting thought. You know, I think there's not one particular type of question that comes to mind. I think just the overall concept of asking questions is something I would love more. I think there's so much power in being curious, and there's so much to [something] that isn't just face value. And I think learning about one another and understanding each other and understanding a point of view or expanding on it is so powerful. And I think that's actually something we really need now.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Yeah. We're in like a statement-making phase.
Gloria Noto: All statements, this is the fact, this is the period at the end of the sentence and that's it. And I'm seeing the thing and I'm making one general assessment of it, and that's the truth. That's just not how it is. Everything is so complex and so I love being asked questions and I would like to ask more questions.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Do you think there's a question or a theme you're going to be asking yourself in the next year or so?
Gloria Noto: I think something that I want to continuously ask myself—and it's not always something I have asked myself and it's so simple and maybe a little selfish—is: Does this make me happy? Is this true? Is this true for me and what I need to be happy?
I think I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to make other people happy, whether that's my business or partners or everything else that I, for a long time, forgot what I needed to be happy and that took a really big toll on my health and my identity and myself. So I really want to redirect that and just make sure I'm making the choices that feel good.
Rachel Schwartzmann: Write that in your visualization practice of myself. Does this make me happy? Am I happy?
Gloria Noto: And why does it make me happy? I think the why is so important. Why do I feel this way? Why am I upset? Why am I jealous? Why am I happy? Why am I feeling this tingle here? Whatever the case is. I think the why is really all of it.
Rachel Schwartzmann: I think so. And I feel like there's probably so much more that we could chat about, but maybe to close things out, we could have you read a final excerpt from [the story], “Everything Passes.”
Gloria Noto: Absolutely. A little bit of a backstory is this has a lot to do with everything that I have talked about in this interview, so if you have listened to this point, then you'll understand a little bit of what this excerpt is about.
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Rachel Schwartzmann: That was my conversation with Gloria Noto. You can learn more about Gloria’s company NOTO at notobotanics.com, and follow Gloria on social @glorianoto and @noto_botanics. You can also subscribe to her on Substack at Studio Noto. I’m Rachel Schwartzmann, and you've been listening to Slow Stories. Thanks so much for tuning in.