Rachel Schwartzmann: Welcome to Slow Stories. I’m Rachel Schwartzmann, the founder of CONNECT(ED)ITORIAL and the host and creator of this podcast. For those of you just joining in, Slow Stories is a series that deep dives into the rising slow content movement. In each of these episodes, I interview brand builders, entrepreneurs, and creative professionals who share what slow content means in the context of what they’re building—and why slowing down and creating thoughtful stories is more important than ever.

This episode begins with a story from Arlena Armstrong-Petock, who shares a grounding practice that always slows her down. Here's more from Arlena.

Arlena Armstrong-Petock: Hi, I'm Arlena, founder and designer of the clothing brand Marvin Ruby. I'm based in Upstate New York, and something that has stopped me from scrolling over the past few years is foraging. A normal walk in my neighborhood is great for me to problem-solve or digest the day. But to truly detach and unplug from whatever is going on in the world—or on the internet—foraging is an unanticipated meditation practice.

My senses are overtaken by the smell of the trees and last fall's leaves beneath my feet. The cuts of light finding their way down to the ground. Sounds of small creatures, startled by my presence. And the details of small corners of the forest I would never look for on a normal hike. I don't claim to be a pro who knows every mushroom, leaf, and berry--but I do know a few. In the springtime, ramps are an intoxicating discovery. During the summer, it's berries. And in the fall, hunting for whatever mushroom I can successfully identify growing under a particular species of tree allows for a refreshing pause and reward from the crazy world we're living in.

Rachel Schwartzmann: Thank you so much again to Arlena for sharing. You can learn more about her brand, Marvin Ruby, online at marvinruby.com. Now, here's my conversation with Laura Cramer and Starr Hout.Starr Hout: One of my favorite questions that I've recently heard is: who are you becoming? And so I'm becoming, you know, mom, wife, partner, devoted steward of anything I can to help Mother Earth. I love staying inspired, [I'm a] happy, happy person.

Laura Cramer: I'm Laura. Let's see. I am, for sure, a mother, a business partner, a friend, a daughter, a wife, all those things. I'm also [the] daughter of an artist and a businesswoman—that's my mother—and an Episcopal priest. So I think all of those things kind of merge in me, where big questions are really important to me, and I like hanging out in them. And I think that's something that people who know me would agree with.

I also really love growth. You know, getting better all the time is really important to me. Starr and I just did a values inquiry, and beauty is clearly very important to us, but we've started to say it more and more, and it feels so true. I love home. I love being in my home and creating [a] home. And I really love play.

Rachel Schwartzmann: All important things. What do you value about one another?

Laura Cramer: I mean, Starr and I are both very similar, and then we have, you know, these subtle differences that are just so—I mean, still, we've known each other for how long, Starr?

Starr Hout: I mean, I think it's like twenty-two years—for a long time.

Laura Cramer: A really long time. And I still—like every interaction I delight in. Nobody makes me laugh with one word like Starr does. [Laughs] But I was just describing her to somebody this morning, and Starr, you have like this boldness and this real kind of clarity of character that comes across. You're both welcoming but also very clear. And I think it's very magnetic for people. So, having a business partner that is like that has been so powerful for me as well.

Starr Hout: Aw, that's so nice, Laura. Thank you.

Laura Cramer: Mm-hmm.

Starr Hout: I'm like clutching my hands and gleefully smiling. I'm like a puppy dog! [Starr and Laura Laugh] That's so great. Well, you know, again, Laura and I have known each other more of our life than not, which is just so cool. And it's really such an honor. What I love so much about Laura is [that] Laura is hilarious, first off. She's always been the smartest woman in the room, [the] smartest person in the room. You know, she's very sharp and quick and very insightful and very intuitive. Laura's very down-to-earth. She's really like very salt of the earth, but she definitely keeps one foot in gratitude and one foot in desire, you know? She's a wonderful, great right-hand to have. She's a super duper problem solver.

You know, we met at a computer programming class—a graduate-level computer programming class—and I remember just being completely over my head, and of course, Laura wasn't in over her head. So I was calling her [and] asking her, "can you please help me?" It would be that call multiple times. And that has happened consistently through this. She just has this can-do it [attitude]—for Apiece Apart and our personal lives. I mean, if you are like, "Oh, I've had this headache for a while," Laura will go in and try to figure out how to help, you know, whatever it is. It's an extraordinary benefit to have her problem-solving with you, whether it's as a friend or as a partner. And we have all sorts of challenges with our business in good ways. She's very down to earth and also able to really problem-solve. And then also we can just laugh until we are red in the face, just like at the absurdity of life and all the craziness it brings up. [Laughs]

Laura Cramer: Yeah, Starr and I recently did some coaching and did this sort of strengths assessment, and we shared the results with one another. It was so incredible to do that with your partner. I always call Starr my other marriage. And in it, you know, it takes all these qualities, puts them together, and creates your top strengths. I think when we did that, we also saw things that we already knew but named them. And it was so interesting because, you know, yes, my problem solver [ability] was like my number one strength. And I was sort of like a little let down because I thought maybe something crazy was gonna come out. Like, I don't know, I should be a poet! That would be fabulous. [Laughs] But instead, it was something that I think we all really know about me. Then Starr's futurism really came to the surface, and that is so true. I can solve not any problem, but I kind of like doing that, and Starr's futurism, that's the recipe for the business that we have and the brand that we have.

Rachel Schwartzmann: Has it been challenging for you to kind of let go of problem-solving, just given the fact that the ground keeps shifting beneath our feet?

Laura Cramer: I would never let it go. [Laughs] I can't let it go. [Starr Laughs] Yeah. I mean, that's the joke. It's sort of annoying, sometimes, to other people. You know that the classic story of a friend who's like, "I just wanna tell you something. I just wanna maybe kvetch, maybe complain, just let me." And it's really hard for me to turn it off there and just straight up listen. I have a lot of empathy, too, but really, there's a part of me that just wants to be like, "Well, let's get on this problem. Let's figure it out."

Rachel Schwartzmann: And then, when it comes to Apiece Apart and your origin story, you've touched a little bit on your friendship and how you've met. And I was going to ask you more about some resonant memories from your road trip that inspired the brand. But first, I wanted to ask if you're thinking about the past, and when do you think thinking about the past can be productive or nourishing?

Laura Cramer: I mean, that's a big question. I would say I'm also pretty future-forward. I like to think about the past in terms of self-reflection, I guess. And seeing how far you've journeyed, you know? That's important to do sometimes. But I think that in some ways, and this is just me, I'm not that sentimental. I really like going forward.

Starr Hout: I completely agree. [Everyone Laughs]

Rachel Schwartzmann: Makes sense! So I'll only ask one question then. Do you remember the conversation that sort of ignited the actual building and planning for Apiece Apart?

Starr Hout: Yes! I mean, you know Laura and I are dear friends, right? We share birthdays together—born a few hours apart—and have celebrated many birthdays together. And so this was our 30th birthday; let's figure something out. And I think I was like, "Maybe I'll just come there. Can I borrow some money and pay you back?" [Laughs] So basically, I land in Austin, which is just such a cool city and has always been such a cool city—and Laura has lived in Austin for a really long time, I mean, back and forth from New York. But we go and have margaritas. And I had started my own collection; I was really trying to do, you know, organic and peace-silk and all of these things that 15 years ago were really hard to do. So I was kind of completely frazzled with this idea that I had and was kind of just like, "Ugh." You know, I was tired. It's like either I'm gonna go into another industry, or I don't even know what—let's just have some margaritas and chips.

Laura had basically the idea at the restaurant, which was like a very refined mix-and-match wardrobe that could be mixed and matched to go anywhere and do anything. I just remember hearing that and being like, "Oh yeah, that's a good idea." And Laura had her own journey coming into this moment.

Laura Cramer: Mm-hmm. I had been in Buenos Aires for Christmas. February is our birthday, and that Christmas, I was in Buenos Aires, and you know, this was 15 years ago. It was really an exciting time there. It was before one of the mini-crashes that have happened. And there were a lot of makers who were creating businesses. There were shoe brands [and] clothing brands, and my parents were living there at the time. So I went and took my now-husband, and I was just really energized by the spirit. It was just very freeing. And I came back to Austin. My boyfriend and I had just moved in together, and I said to him, "Let's move to Buenos Aires. I think we need to do that." And he was like, why? And I was like, "Oh, it was so exciting." He was like, "Um, I'm gonna need a better reason than that," essentially.

We had this kind of out-and-out fight about it where he said, "Laura, I think you might need a hobby." And it was like one of the cruelest things that I had heard at the time, but he was right. I just wasn't living in my truth, my creative truth. I was looking for outward places, you know, things to either distract me or inspire me. At that point, I started pursuing interests, and they were random interests. I was taking weaving and textile dying classes. I was really into textiles, so I thought maybe that was the future for me. I had been a graphic designer up until that point. So, all of it seemed to come together in that way. And so when Starr arrived, I had been toying with this concept of a collection—but only for me—I was just going to make some clothing because I wanted to wear it. And when I shared it with her, she saw the big idea. And that is very much, again, that, like, you know, I'm a problem solver, and she's a futurist. And so she saw the future-forward view of it.

That happened before the trip to Marfa. It was the trip to Marfa, where we were driving in my car. I had an old Mercedes at the time, and it truly broke down on the eight-hour drive; it broke down like six times along the way. So we had a lot of time on our hands getting out there, and we started kind of just messing around with the idea. There was a modular component to the idea, which was really exciting to us. And it, for sure, coincided with the Donald Judd work that we saw when we were there. Part of it was like this ability to have just a few [pieces], a minimal approach to dressing. Having a few pieces and putting those in a bag, and then being able to be free and go anywhere in the world, do anything. And that's the origin story.

We got back to Austin. Starr and her now-husband flew back to New York. And I think it was the next day we were all at our day jobs again, and Starr called and said, "Let's do it." And I remember saying, "[Do] What?" [Laura Laughs] Again, she saw it, and I was still kind of like in, "Oh, that. Okay." And so we came up with a whole game plan of creating a collection together, and really, the rest is history. And we don't talk about history. [Laughs]

Rachel Schwartzmann: Was the name of the brand something you came together on? Or was that Starr, too? [Laughs]

Laura Cramer: No. We had an email going back and forth with names, and at one point, I found it, and I can't find it anymore, but we were like, "Oh, apart, we're apart, parts, pieces, pieces, parts." It truly was the two of us playing almost in a sing-song, way back and forth. And we came up with it.

Starr Hout: What's cool is that it stopped.

Laura Cramer: Yeah.

Starr Hout: Like we fully sung the words back and forth, and then the song was done, you know? It didn't continue after that. You know, what is interesting, I'll just say, is that that trip was like a 72-hour trip or something like that. It was so, so short, and just the power of going and doing it—it's just thank God I asked to borrow money and come visit and celebrate. I mean, the bigger thing was the celebration. We figured out a way.

I think there's also something that is, for us, this feeling, this sense of unburdened freedom. That's really important in that origin story. The idea of design is that it is something that could support life and support the person. I feel that origin story in me. I see the wide-open planes that we were driving with. And I see, Donald Judd—you know, getting to The Chinati Foundation was so much a part of it, and the white buildings of Marfa. There's a real sense of freedom from it. It's a visceral feeling for me... And it comes in in every collection—that feeling of freedom, of sun, of wind, of not being held down, you know, [from] like all of our stuff. [Laughs] Of which we have all so much stuff, right? But the feeling, the idea of not having all this stuff in your closet that is in your nose and your face all the time. And you're just trying to get your heart's work, your bliss of the day, done—and you have to have the challenge of getting dressed. So it inspires me to this day—that story—and reminds me of how blessed we are, where our design is our passion. It's been such a privilege.

Rachel Schwartzmann: Yeah. It's amazing. And I actually want to go back to something you said about support. I'd love to hear about how your partnership taught you what a support system is or, conversely, what it's not. And how that's changed in the last couple of years.

Laura Cramer: Well, I feel like what's been really important to us is community. And, you know, particularly communities of women. We couldn't have made this story that we're talking about without so many different women who were by our side, you know? I think we were inspired by our mothers, our grandmothers, and our sisters. And in the early days, we leaned on all these incredible women that we had known from New York, from our local haunts and whatnot, who came together and believed in the idea with us, believed in us, and really raised us up. I could name so many names of people who were there for us and truly made the difference between our idea taking off or not... What we've put into our mission statement is that we're supporting women, and women are supporting us. And that's been important.

Then beyond that, you know, how Starr and I support each other—yes, we're business partners, and we're friends. We're both mothers. So some of the most probably powerful times in our business have been moments when we've been unsure, maybe scared a little bit. Maybe things are going on with our bodies that are out of our control. Being there for each other in those ways has allowed us to really keep going. Just knowing there are people in your corner who have gone through it—or are there for you—makes all the difference. So, I think supportiveness is everything, and that's what we hope to do with our clothing, our stories, and our branding as we continue the mission that we're on.

Rachel Schwartzmann: Absolutely. And then kind of zooming out a little bit in terms of the stories that you're telling—I want to get into that because you've done such a wonderful job of fostering the community and telling the stories of the women who are driving everything that you're doing. But I'm curious if there's a story that either of you has come across recently—whether it's been an article, a poem, or even a WOMAN interview on the site—that has sort of made you slow down or impacted your relationship with design in an unexpected way?

Starr Hout: There's a woman who will be featured in our interview. Her name is Victoria Song. She's an absolutely amazing, brilliant mind. She has a book called Bending Reality: How to Make the Impossible Probable, and she also has a coaching workshop. Everything that she does has been really powerful for me. I highly recommend the book. It's all about bending reality and bringing forth into the world that which you really want. So, a lot of it is based on making sure you're creating decisions out of expansion instead of contraction. That's the basic foundation of her work. One of the most important things we can do is know when we're in states of contraction and then how to get out of it. So the number one thing that can trigger a state of contraction is when you are feeling rushed and you don't have enough time, which is absolutely totally classic me. I'm just rushing through everything like there's just never enough time. I'm too busy. I've got this to do. I got that [to do], you know, all that stuff. I know I'm not alone here. And just knowing that that's actually a state of contraction. It's really helped me to know when I'm feeling good.

And when I'm feeling open in a state of expansion, that's where all my best work comes from. So, just knowing and honoring that is important. It's been really helpful for me. Having fun doing our job, I know that that brings the most abundance and prosperity for Apiece Apart. And you have to slow down because you can't feel rushed. And to just really allow myself to enjoy what I do. We're so lucky to do what we do, and getting through a lot of feelings of guilt about obsessing over design [Laughs] and beautiful things has been really powerful for me. Now I'm like, "This is just who I am." It's my passion. So, the combination of slowing down because I don't always have to be in a rush has been really powerful.

Laura Cramer: We just did an interview with Mecca James-Williams, who's this incredible stylist, kind of cultural critic, and she's living in Jamaica right now, but she was talking about her life and manifestation and how she's essentially manifested everything that's happened. I was struck by that because I think the same is true of me and Starr. And when I say manifestation, I mean it in like the statement "dreaming as a form of planning." And making sure that we're all allotting the necessary amount of time for that dreaming slash thinking [and[ planning. That's been difficult for me to own, even though I know it's so true. Just getting out of a mindset of, you know, hyper-productivity and into a kind of state of rest and thought—and making sure that there's time for that. That's been very important.

Rachel Schwartzmann: Absolutely. I was just kind of thinking about what you were saying earlier, Starr, about how lucky you are to do what you do in terms style. And I came across an interview you guys did for The Hollywood Reporter—I think it was three or four years ago now—but you mentioned that you thought of style as a form of emotional wellness or a function of emotional wellness. I'm curious if you still think that's true and what role pace has played in helping you arrive at that conclusion.

Starr Hout: Yeah. I mean, I am just a total design junkie. I just really believe that design can support life. So style meaning: What are those blocks that are built together to support what makes you feel good? Clothing on your back is a basic need. And then there's also: What do I believe in, how do I wear it, and how does it express itself? [That] also matters. I think that's when it gets really fun.

I think for us, it's like we come out, we are children, we grow up, I [grew up]—Laura, I'm sure didn't—[but] my parents were like Costco shoppers. And there were just glutenous amounts of crap. This was the beginning of fast fashion. So we come out of this like, "Oh, there's just so much," you know, there are the basic needs, which are super important, and then there's like, "But you don't need all this stuff. This stuff is actually bogging you down." So I think having the awareness of knowing what makes you feel good—and then supporting that—is total well-being.

Rachel Schwartzmann: In terms of your process, have there been any unexpected challenges or rewards of designing during a time when our lives have become a little bit more insular? You know, I'm sure a lot of people's personal style or relationship with style has changed. And as you say, clothing is a basic need. How do you maintain that creative spirit throughout a time of crisis?

Laura Cramer: Well, I mean, as it relates to time, I think what's been so important going back to the creative process is during this, we realized that we had been living in an urgent state for, you know, all thirteen—or twelve or thirteen—years of our business. During this time, we were able to jump ahead in the process from a creative standpoint, and [we] kind of shifted our relationship to the calendar. It's a little boring the way that we did it, but the impact has been huge. I mean, we have just been running around, you know, with our heads cut off for years, living at a pace that was pretty unsustainable, you know? And yes, we were making amazing things happen during that time. But I think there was something about the slowing down of the world—and luckily, we're in positions where that more or less happened, despite homeschooling and all the chaos—that there was a little time to rethink how we created and what the creative process would look like.

Also, Starr moved upstate, and I moved to Austin, and our core team is still in New York. So, we had to shift how we were creating. And I think there's been some really beautiful again, impact of that. How we share images, and how we come up with documents that guide the visual creative process. And then I think because, in the early days of what happened, we were so heartfelt, attuned to our audience, attuned to humanity and mothers and women everywhere that I think we probably did get into more of an empathetic design state due to that. The stakes felt very high, and what we were doing needed to be really meaningful for people if they were going to spend money with us. So I think all of those things have collaborated with what we're doing now. I think ... our feelings are just so excited about the future and about our design and impact.

Rachel Schwartzmann: It comes across for me. I mean, I've followed Apiece Apart for years, particularly through a storytelling lens. We've been talking about your incredible WOMAN interview series. With that in mind—and kind of parallel to what you were saying about just a slower, more considered design process—for those who may not know, with Slow Stories, I was really interested in kind of drawing from movements like slow fashion and slow food, and seeing if there was a way we could apply those values and practices into our digital lives—and stories.

So, something that I like to ask my guests, particularly those who are makers, is what this idea of slow storytelling or content means to them. Just, you know, given the fact that you guys have kind of been leaders in that brand storytelling space.

Starr Hout: Mm-hmm, it's an interesting one.

Laura Cramer: Yeah... slow is an interesting word. I guess the question is, is digital storytelling now all fast, or can it too be slow? I guess what I'm toiling with is slow content; for me, it would've been what I grew up with, you know? Where we were hunting for zines or cool magazines out of the UK. When Starr and I started developing our storytelling one, we were maybe a little honed in by old notions of editorials or aspirational content. We love image-making. But I think as we've evolved, we saw how important—I don't know; I guess maybe what the heart of what we were doing was maybe more important in some ways than the visual aspect. And the digital modes that we're playing with now, we see how, for instance, a photograph of somebody's breakfast unproduced might be more meaningful to somebody than the beautiful photograph out in nature that we've created and has been very well-balanced plays in a digital universe.

I mean, I'm sort of getting off track, but I think the most important thing about what we set out to do with our storytelling was one, focus on women and the stories of women. Because that was, as we've already talked about, the support system of our lives, and that's what we wanted to do for other people. Then, we also wanted to make it so nobody consuming the content would feel bad about themselves.

Starr and I had a really important conversation, I think in traffic somewhere in New York. We were talking about how all the content of this time—and I think it was probably like 2012—just felt so hyper-produced. It almost felt aggressive in that it made me feel badly about my life if I didn't look a certain way or my home didn't look a certain way. I started to kind of feel like it was an attack of some sort. So when we set out to do our storytelling, it was like, let's make sure that we're showcasing women and the real authentic lives of women, not these like perfect moments—and to continually do that in the words that we used and then in the images that we captured. So I think that's what we've been playing with over the years: how to continue to do that.

Rachel Schwartzmann: Have there been any unexpected narratives that have arisen during the exploration of how you're telling these stories?

Laura Cramer: I think it's just how every life is amazing, you know? And every woman has come with like such a story of vulnerability and triumph—whether they're telling a success story or whether they're telling the real deal, the real hardship. I think those are the stories that get us, [and] like bring us to our knees.

Starr Hout: Yeah. I just think, you know, the stories of [the] triumph of women are just incredibly inspiring to us. I mean, I think it's probably inspiring to everyone, right? It's not just us alone. I mean, we have had—I'll speak for myself—I've really had to put my phone to bed [and] not consume as much. And when I do consume, it's gotta be like meaning-based consumption. I love podcasts. I love learning. I love meaning. I love staying in a state of joy. So I look only for things that do that from a slowing down place.

So for us, it's been like our air and water, in many ways, because we're like, "Ah, this cool woman and this cool woman," it's like a blessing and a curse. You can't do too much of it, or you fry yourself, but it's just incredibly rich. And it's been so amazing because I feel like I have friends all over, and some of them I've never even met. They're my buds! So yeah, it's a double-dip feeling. It's incredibly potent, and thank goodness for it. And really, there have been so many ways that I've learned to slow down. Victoria Song, for instance, came from Kerrilyn Pamer of CAP Beauty and CEREAL [Magazine]. I found her through them. So it's that gift—but we all have to learn the self-discipline when it's too much.

Rachel Schwartzmann: I will be on the lookout for that.

Starr Hout: Yeah, she's amazing.

Rachel Schwartzmann: I mean, there are so many stories and even questions that I think a lot of people in our communities are posing. I'm sure as creatively-oriented founders, you both are constantly reflecting or questioning ways you can evolve your process or practice—and just live a little bit more fully. And so, with that said, I'm curious if there is a question that you hope people will start asking you more often as we kind of dig into the year and make some of those things flourish.

Laura Cramer: There's a question that I've recently put into part of my daily practice or weekly practice—and it's pretty basic—but looking back on this moment, what am I gonna wanna do here? Seeing each of the, you know, daily questions from the perspective of end of life, or maybe even just twenty years down the line, what am I gonna wanna do? What is it that I want this moment to be about? How would I have wanted to act? I mean, that's a long view, but I think it does kind of start to shed some light on daily moments or daily questions.

Starr Hout: It's a good one.

Rachel Schwartzmann: It sort of taps into your problem-solving point of view. [Everyone Laughs] Starr, do you have one?

Starr Hout: You know, this came from one of my favorite podcast hosts, and this is just from a recent interview he had. It's just the idea of: Who are you becoming? And I think that's just so interesting because we're so lucky. I feel so grateful to Laura and our partners. I really feel like there's so much more for us to do like our best work is ahead of us... I love the idea that our best work is ahead of us. So the idea—who are we becoming?—has been really galvanizing to me.

Rachel Schwartzmann: And then to kind of close things out—and also follow up on that question—what's a question that you want to ask one another more often?

Laura Cramer: Gosh, that's a really hard one. [Everyone Laughs]

Starr Hout and Laura Cramer: What's your latest home purchase? What color sheets are you getting? Bangs or no bangs?

Starr Hout: Huh. I mean, maybe, what's next? What else do we want to bring forth? Because it's been so powerful, and we're so capable. I mean that on an individual level, we're so capable of realizing dreams. So, what next?

Rachel Schwartzmann: That was my conversation with Laura Cramer and Starr Hout, co-founders of Apiece Apart. You can shop Apiece Apart online at https://apieceapart.com/ and follow them on social @apieceapart. Stay tuned, as we'll be sharing highlights from this episode on our channels @slowstoriesofficial on Instagram and @slowstoriespod on Twitter. I'm Rachel Schwartzmann, and you've been listening to Slow Stories. Thank you so much for tuning in.